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neko

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VP Experimental rule: chit colour

Message 1547, 3817d 3h ago.
Now, in experimental (level 4 rules) games, there is a new rule in force: chit colour.

Your movement chits are coloured green, yellow, red.

- If in a turn you play a yellow chit, in the following turn you cannot play a red chit.

- If in a turn you play a red chit, in the following turn you can only play green choits.


Or, to put it differently,

- You can only play red chits after a preparation round in which you only played green chits. In the following round, you are again able to play only green chits.

The current ruling is very strict: the second thrust/boost or the second turn chit you play is yellow, the following one is red.

With the current rules in force, CRITICAL HITS AGAINST THE ENGINES ARE NOW REMOVED FROM THE GAME!!!

Please let me know your opinions.

neko

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VP Experimental rule: chit colour

Message 1548, 3817d 2h ago. In reply to message 1547.
neko wrote:
Now, in experimental (level 4 rules) games, there is a new rule in force: chit colour.

Your movement chits are coloured green, yellow, red.

- If in a turn you play a yellow chit, in the following turn you cannot play a red chit.

- If in a turn you play a red chit, in the following turn you can only play green choits.


Or, to put it differently,

- You can only play red chits after a preparation round in which you only played green chits. In the following round, you are again able to play only green chits.

The current ruling is very strict: the second thrust/boost or the second turn chit you play is yellow, the following one is red.

With the current rules in force, CRITICAL HITS AGAINST THE ENGINES ARE NOW REMOVED FROM THE GAME!!!

Please let me know your opinions.

neko


I'll give you me thoughts when I've played a few games... One Question: Why?
Where can I see what color I played last turn?

Hollander


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VP Experimental rule: chit colour

Message 1549, 3817d 2h ago. In reply to message 1548.
Hollander wrote:
I'll give you me thoughts when I've played a few games... One Question: Why?
Where can I see what color I played last turn?


that's two questions...

neko

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VP Experimental rule: chit colour

Message 1550, 3817d 2h ago. In reply to message 1548.
Hollander wrote:
Why?


I already get the picture you don't like the idea

Several reasons:
1) the rule is easy to explain,
2) it is easy to implement face-to-face using coloured chits.
3) it should include the "depth" of the game and make it more interesting.
4) I have tons of ideas on how to combine the rule with pilot skills and fighter characteristics.
5) I haven't forgotten about "bomb run" scenarios, they're still on the todo list


Where can I see what color I played last turn?


On each fighter's sheet, chits that cannot be played show up as black.

neko

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VP Experimental rule: chit colour

Message 1551, 3817d 2h ago. In reply to message 1550.
neko wrote:
Hollander wrote:

Where can I see what color I played last turn?


On each fighter's sheet, chits that cannot be played show up as black.


E.g.

http://www.takeaplay.net/zwz_browse_game.php?game_id=3844

neko

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VP Experimental rule: chit colour

Message 1552, 3817d 2h ago. In reply to message 1550.
neko wrote:

3) it should include* the "depth" of the game and make it more interesting.


*increase

Calsir

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VP Experimental rule: chit colour

Message 1553, 3817d 1h ago. In reply to message 1547.
neko wrote:
Now, in experimental (level 4 rules) games, there is a new rule in force: chit colour.

Your movement chits are coloured green, yellow, red.

- If in a turn you play a yellow chit, in the following turn you cannot play a red chit.

- If in a turn you play a red chit, in the following turn you can only play green choits.



What's the rationale, engine overheating? Afterburner? Emergency power?

The rules seem clear, though.

--
Calsir

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VP Experimental rule: chit colour

Message 1554, 3817d ago. In reply to message 1547.
in honest my op about this rule is quite negative

1-discourage to choose fighters focused on agility( manouvres )
why to choose em if i can't be sure to have the possibility to use the full agility of the fighter when and in the way i'd prefer ?

2-if i know what's the colour of the last chit of my enemy i can have an idea of where he will able to go as his movments will be limited
instead with the old rules i can always have an idea but it is an ipotesis between many possibilities

for the rest :
THX to the creators of VP ; nice work, nice game , carry on !!!

neko

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VP Experimental rule: chit colour

Message 1555, 3817d ago. In reply to message 1553.
Calsir wrote:

What's the rationale, engine overheating? Afterburner? Emergency power?


Those, in addition to spinners inefficiency, and pilots being able to withstand top accelerations/spins not on all turns. Very fast recovery from overheating makes sense when the outside temperature is 3 Kelvin

neko

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VP Experimental rule: chit colour

Message 1556, 3817d ago. In reply to message 1554.
pier. wrote:
in honest my op about this rule is quite negative


Thanks for the feedback!


1-discourage to choose fighters focused on agility( manouvres )


Good point; I totally agree. This is just a test. In the full implementation (if I decide to make the rule "official"), fighters with more thrust/better spinners will have proportionally more green chits and less red chits.


2-if i know what's the colour of the last chit of my enemy i can have an idea of where he will able to go as his movments will be limited


That is the idea, really. It will force you to plan a bit more in advance before playing a red chit. Also remember that, as long as you don't play red chits, you can always use the yellow ones.

Let us see how it works out it is just an experiment, after all


THX to the creators of VP ; nice work, nice game , carry on !!!


Thanks a lot for the encouragement

neko

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VP Experimental rule: chit colour

Message 1557, 3816d 23h ago. In reply to message 1547.
I have already done a little improvement to the rule to make the number of red/yellow/green chits fighter-dependent.

- Fighters having a maximum g of 4 have the yellow thrust chit turned to a green chit.

- Fighters having power spinners and thrust 5+ have the yellow spin chit turned into a green chit.

- Fighters having light spinners and thrust 7+ have the yellow spin chit turned into a green chit.

Calsir

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VP Experimental rule: chit colour

Message 1559, 3816d 8h ago. In reply to message 1557.
Bug?

In our experimental game, I can only see green chits, that then become suddenly red. No yellow fellow.

neko

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VP Experimental rule: chit colour

Message 1560, 3816d 4h ago. In reply to message 1559.
Calsir wrote:
Bug?

In our experimental game, I can only see green chits, that then become suddenly red. No yellow fellow.


As I said in another post in this thread, I made the chit colour slightly dependent on the fighter's characteristics. Yes, some fighters have only green and red chits.

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VP Experimental rule: chit colour

Message 1562, 3813d 2h ago. In reply to message 1547.
neko wrote:
Please let me know your opinions.

A few observations:

The colored chits are going to require players to make a lot of small moves rather than fewer moves using all available thrust. I'm pretty sure that will make IMT drives untenable from a fuel use perspective (and they are already pretty far behind IVT in that area). A 1 on 1 between an IVT and an IMT fighter could simply be played as a waiting game by the player with the IVT drive. (I'd challenge somebody to a duel with me in a Wasp and them in anything using IMT in an attempt to prove this claim, but it would surely lead to a very boring fight.) Perhaps you could double (or triple) the rounds fuel given to fighters with IMT?

I also think the limits on Terran (AKA g-limit 3) ships is going to be a lot of trouble. Previously a Terran could accelerate up to 6 times in one direction over two turns (allowing them to stay in bounds even if they were going to be 12 hexes out), now that is limited to 4 thrusts (letting them theoretically still manage 10 hexes of movement, but probably much less if there is are any hard turns needed during or just before the first turn of thrust). I expect a lot of them to be flying out of bounds or into the arena walls in upcoming games.

Finally, there were two engine criticals in the last turn of game 3848, so they don't seem to be disabled yet.

I'm not sure what I think of the new system overall. I think I'll need to complete a few more games to see more about how it works in practice, but I wanted to give you some immediate feedback on the things I've noticed after a few turns of using it.

neko

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VP Experimental rule: chit colour

Message 1564, 3813d 1h ago. In reply to message 1562.
Thanks for the feedback!

BlckKnght wrote:
The colored chits are going to require players to make a lot of small moves rather than fewer moves using all available thrust. I'm pretty sure that will make IMT drives untenable from a fuel use perspective (and they are already pretty far behind IVT in that area).


I admit I didn't consider this aspect. Would have to think about it. The real issue is *not* that one item becomes better than the other one (prices will float to take into account the new balance). What worries me is that it leaves room for abuse.

I will not increase the autonomy of IMT drives (it is based on more or less sound formulas from a physical point of view). What I definitely could do is tune a bit the default fuel consumption (fighters already enter the game with less than the maximum fuel). The rationale would be that IMT pilots are aware of the flaw, and try to save as much fuel as possible

I also think the limits on Terran (AKA g-limit 3) ships is going to be a lot of trouble. [...]


Totally agree. If the rule really gets implemented, chit colour will be determined by a completely different mechanism, in which items have another value besides mass, power, and price. You would be able to build high-thrust fighters with few green chits, low-thrust fighters with lots of green chits, and all combinations thereof. It would be a whole new dimension in the fighter design stage, to be compensated with more stable prices and more prebuilt fighters available.


Finally, there were two engine criticals in the last turn of game 3848, so they don't seem to be disabled yet.


Darn. You sure they happened *after* the new rule came into effect, aren't you? Will look into it.

I'm not sure what I think of the new system overall. I think I'll need to complete a few more games to see more about how it works in practice, but I wanted to give you some immediate feedback on the things I've noticed after a few turns of using it.


Keep it up!

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